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tv   Prime News  HLN  July 30, 2009 5:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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it's all over the bitter custody dispute over michael jackson's kids. grandma, katherine, awarded sole custody. here's the catch. jackson's ex-wife, debbie rowe, does have parental rights and visitation. but there are reports she barely knows the kids. she's going to be in their lives a little more? you won't be able to take your eyes off this car chase. mystery driver who stole this car is all of 7 years old. and the kid can drive. we'll show you how this one plays out. what was his motive for taking off? he wanted to skip church. see what happens when you skip church, kids? love hearing from you, 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us cnn.com/primenews.
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or text us at hlntv, start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "prime news." i'm mike galanos. a custody deal on michael jackson's kids, finally settled. and debbie rowe is getting no extra money out of this deal? apparently that's the way it shakes out. jackson's mom, katherine, she will get full custody of her grandkids, 12-year-old prince, 11-year-old paris and 7-year-old blanket. they will live with her in her home in encino, california. debbie rowe will have visitation and parental rights. again, she's the mother of jackson's two older kids. do they even know her? what kind of relationship has she had with them? we'll get to the bottom of this custody deal. take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. and joining me to talk about this, welcome back, carlos diaz, correspondent "extra." also with us, radio talk show host and psychologist cooper lawrence.
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joining us also, is alexis nee li, family law attorney. >> could debbie rowe come back another time for more negotiations? does this end it? >> this sounds like this is the end of it and we'll know on monday when the hearing takes place exactly what the agreement is and whether or not jackson will agree to it as well. >> she has parental rights. what could they be? what are we talking about here? yes, she's the biological mom of the older kids, but what kind of rights does she have? >> we don't know what kind of rights she actually has, because the court hasn't said anything in this case. what we're really wondering is what does this agreement say and whether the court is going to say that they're going to validate the agreement. we'll know that on monday. and really, whatever they agree to is probably the best thing that they could possibly do, because getting into a protracted custody battle at this point is not the answer. >> everybody agrees, that wouldn't be best for the kids. carlos, one of the aspects of this, debbie rowe is going to
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get visitation. help us understand, has she had visitation in the past? does she know these kids at all? >> she doesn't have what you call a normal motherly relationship with these kids. the visitation that she will receive is going to be contingent on what a psychiatrist is going to say. basically there will be a psychological evaluation of these kids. these kids will see a psychologist, a child psychologist for the next several weeks, months and years. and that child psychologist will determine how much debbie rowe gets to see the kids. the thing i'm concerned about is they're paying for this jointly, which means debbie rowe and the jackson family are going to pay for this child psychologist. if they say these kids don't know debbie rowe, they tonight want to see her, does debbie rowe want to keep paying for this child psychology to hear this bad news? >> do we know when was the last time she saw the kids? >> we don't know for certain. we know that she wasn't a part, a big part of the kids' lives. she said in the past she didn't
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give away the kids. every person that i've interviewed said michael jackson was the father of the year every year. so obviously she felt the kids were in good hands with michael. >> let's bring in our psychologist, cooper lawrence. how does the psychologist make the call here if and when the kids want to see, know, meet their biological mom, debbie rowe? >> there's several things the psychologist will do. they'll do a couple of different assessments to assess where each child is emotionally. after a parent dies, it's all about custody and the money. but you forget these children are experiencing a lot of guilt, a lot of anger, a lot of sadness. they're still grieving. so first the psychologist has to assess where they are in the grieving process. then they'll probably interview them one by one to see how they feel about debbie, how they feel -- where they are psychologically, how they are coping right now. by the big concern is that she tends to make everything about her. and the kids cannot parent her right now. they can't comfort her. this is about them. and the idea of a stranger coming into their lives with all
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this publicity, i would not advise it. if they came to me, i would say this is a horrible idea. >> and so soon. you just mentioned it, the trauma of your father dies. it would be traumatic even if michael jackson was alive and well, all of a sudden here comes mom. do you want her in your lives right now, cooper? >> if she was in their lives all along, if they knew who she was, she's basically a stranger to them and a stranger who has really been selling her rights all these years. so they may have some anger about that. whether it's true or not is irrelevant. that might be their perception. right now is not the best time for them to bring somebody else into their lives who may not have their best interests in mind. >> it's a long, slow process. carlos, you want to make a point? >> that's where the child psychologist comes in. you guys are making this point, it's too soon. it's not going to be too soon if the child psychologist comes in and says it's too soon, then she won't see them right away. the child psychologist will give their report as to what the
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>> it's an sgremt for the best interests of the children. this is not about money. there is no situation better for these children than for them to be ready for the care of katherine jackson. >> attorney for katherine jackson. appearing on the cbs "early show." we have our experts standing by. we'll take your calls as well. carlos, everybody's laying it out there. no money, huh, carlos? no money for debbie rowe.
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>> very interesting about that. i thought that the agreement between debbie rowe and michael jackson ended after five years. and now they're saying that no money is exchanging hands except for what she already gets for michael jackson. present tebs. so she's still getting money from michael jackson in some way, which i find to be very interesting. we don't know what amount that money is right now. >> wasn't the original deal $8.5 million? >> well, it was -- you hear these different amounts. but it was a set time of five years. so that time, you know, should have elapsed by now. and i guess there was another deal that was made in the interim. and she's still getting money from michael jackson. >> let's bring in our attorney, alexis ne, ly. you hear this, listen to the wording, is there any way you think money is being exchanged? >> well, as carlos said, she could still be getting money under a prior agreement, and perhaps her agreement now is being answered into because she doesn't want to lose that money. but it looks like she's putting
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the interests of the kids first, while at the same time preserving whatever rights she might have to have a relationship with them. and listen, that might be in their best interests. if she's their mother, at some point they may want to have a relationship with her. maybe it's not right now. but there's many kids there are given up for adoption that later on in their life they want to have a relationship with their biological parent. >> exactly. when the kids are ready. >> that's right. >> let's get a call in. jane's with us in rhode island. go ahead. >> caller: hi, mike. thanks for taking my call. >> you got it. >> caller: i'll try to be quick. i believe debbie rowe is being, how do i say, just sitting back, unfortunately. i think she's waiting for katherine jackson having an untimely god forbid passing because of her age. i think debbie rowe is waiting for money all the way. and so she's going to get it. >> you're skeptical, jane, huh? >> caller: i believe she's playing a scam.
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and she knows what she's doing. >> carlos, in the deal, is there any way -- there's no way debbie rowe swoops back in as primary caregiver, guardian? it goes to katherine to diana ross. >> i respectfully disagree with the caller, because of the fact that this is the time, if debbie rowe was going to fight for money, this would be the time. because on monday, not only will the judge hear about the kids, the judge also hears about the estate. and obviously now they have a deal with the kids out of the way, they can focus on the estate which is what katherine jackson really wants to focus on. it's reported it's worth $2 billion. so obviously this is the time for debbie rowe's attorneys to have the leverage to say, okay, you want this to go away? give us this much money. they didn't do that. you can say what you want about debbie rowe, but i applaud her today for being a good mother and looking out for the best interests of the kids, because the kids being with katherine jackson is what's best for the kids. >> the caller skeptical. we'll have more on this at 6:00.
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we want to hear from you. what are your thoughts on the whole custody deal. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. you guys, thanks a lot. the latest in the casey anthony case. hundreds of new documents with crucial information. we've been scanning those documents. i'll tell you one thing, casey's family, cindy, george, lee, refused polygraph testing. why? do they have something to hide here?
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you're a huge part of the show. love hearing from you. call in, 1-877-tell-hln. you can disagree with some of our panelists, line jane did from rhode island. e-mail us cnn.com/primenews. or text us, hlntv, the number's 45688. start your message with the word prime. and one other way to get in on the conversation, become a fan of "prime news" on facebook.
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we'll take you behind the scenes in the show. richelle, myself, snapshots, let you know what stories we're covering. all the juice that brings "prime news" to your table monday through friday 5:00 eastern. go to cnn.com/primenews for new developments. the mother accused of killing her little girl, little caylee. today florida prosecutors grilled casey's brother, lee, interrogated him under oath. her mom, cindy, she gave hours of grueling testimony yesterday, the day before. also this, just released, mega pile of court documents, hundreds of pages and stunners inside include this, casey's family refused a polygraph, and a shocking statement from a jail inmate, casey told him in secret. as always, take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, criminal defense attorneys, janet is with us. we also welcome back mike ig lar ash, a former prosecutors. natisha, let's start with you.
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let's start with some 1,400 pages of documents. any highlights stand out to you in there? >> one of the things that stood out to me is cindy anthony was doing her best to convince law enforcement that zenaida gonzalez did exist. she handed over toys that belonged to caylee anthony, dvds as well, that these are items that caylee may have had when she was with zenaida. you should dust these items for fingerprints. we don't know what the results of those fingerprints test. we do know that law enforcement has maintained all along that zenaida gonzalez does not exist. >> that's one of the other highlights we have is that an inmate by the name of -- a jail inmate by the name of travis nichols says casey told him, he asked her point blank about the babysitter, about little caylee. according to travis nichols, that casey told him he made up ze nid a. >> she said i made up zenaida. the baby was with her boyfriend at the time.
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one of these boyfriends that casey anthony had. and this inmate, he was in jail for drug charges as well as burglary charges. we did speak to the orange county sheriff's office, actually the jail at that time, and he said that it would be very unlikely for a male inmate and a female inmate to be in the same quarters in the same time. not so sure about his credibility. this is what he says casey anthony told him. >> exactly. you look at -- whatever the case, zenaida, mark, i heard you grumbling there a moment ago. zenaida does not exist and more casey lies to cover her tracks. go ahead. >> let's just say this. first of all, what i was grumbling about, mike, is somehow this case hinges upon some other male inmate who probably had no contact with her, apparently she has clammed up, casey, throughout this whole case and now somehow revealed to another inmate, hey, zenaida doesn't exist? that's garbage. they're not even going to introduce that testimony, number one. number two, i agree with natisha 100%, that of all the 1,500
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pages of documents, the most compelling to me was cindy anthony's detail in trying to create the existence of zenaida, or zanny the nanny, and this document right here is the most compelling. she swears under the penalties of perjury that zanny the nanny gave to cindy a hair straightener, and also that cindy would give to -- would bring over to zanny's house bambi videos. here's the most compelling part of this. the suspect's name in this report is listed as zenaida fernandez gonzalez. you mean she was a suspect of a kidnapping? according to law enforcement? the defense is going to have a field day with this document. >> i thought it was -- wasn't it zenaida fernandez fernandez? >> no, it was ze nid a gonzalez. >> is that really a building block for a defense case?
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cindy trying to convince investigators there was a zanny the nanny? >> there's so much evidence that they're going to have to plod through, and they're going to show that it's crazy amounts of evidence being given crazy connotations, and it adds to the zaniness of it all. it's nothing more, this case is going to have that element to it. here we are also learning that they secretly videotaped this woman when she was told that her daughter was dead. i mean, she was brought to the nurse's station from her jail, and she was told then that her daughter's remains had been found. and of course, whyould you tape that? and then release it? except that you're trying to make this case more than it really is. and that adds to the zaniness. that adds to the -- the defense is going to say this handled in such a way that it's so zany, what else do they have? and, you know what? i really don't like this case at all. but you've got to want to have
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this woman have a fair trial. >> yeah, we do. >> these issues are so serious. >> to our viewers, you know, despite, let's put it bluntly here, we want casey anthony to have a fair trial. natisha, when they taped her in the jail house, we didn't know it was little caylee yet. i believe casey was told remains of a child had been found near the home. we didn't know -- natisha, isn't that right? >> that's absolutely right. no confirmation it was caylee yet. >> but we know what they're going after, the prosecution. and mark, we don't know that they're even going to use that, right? >> that's correct. but going back to your original point, in order for this defense to work, it appears that they're sticking with casey's original story, and that is that it wasn't her who took down her own daughter. it was zanny the nanny, the first building block is you've got to prove that person exists. >> guys, we're just getting loose. hang tight.
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welcome back to "prime news." wild police chase coming up in utah. we've got a slow, erratic driver. some weaving back and forth, blowing through stop signs, as expected. the driver you see there, all of 7 years old. you've got to see how this one ends. and a nice turn there by the 7-year-old, mind you. call us on that one, 1-877-tell-hln. this story as well. authorities in hollywood, florida, they're investigating shocking allegations that four of their own officers tried to frame a woman over a fender bender. here's the story. alexandra was rear ended by an officer in his squad car back in february. three other cops show up, and apparently she admitted through all this she had been drinking.
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they give her a field sobriety test, and they arrest her on dui charges. while she's handcuffed in the back of the cop car, the officers allegedly concocted a scheme to nail her for the accident. the squad car camera was on. they're talking. let's listen to the officers. >> gone na do a little walt disney to protect a cop. >> there you have it. before we go any further, we contacted the hollywood police department. they sell us they would not be able to comment and a violation of them of the law to talk about the allegations. the department said as soon as the police chief became aware of the allegations before they were reported by the media, he launched an internal affairs investigation. we understand all four of the officers are basically doing administrative duty, they're not out on the road as this investigation continues. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. let's welcome back our attorneys, mike eiglarsh, and janet pennisi, a criminal
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defense attorney as well. all right. again, janet, cops on administrative duty right now. how are they going to fight this, when we have the audio of them talking it out right in dash cam microphones on? >> they're not going to deny what happened, what they're going to do is min niz what the mun issuement is going to be. you read what's going on about this case, everyone's like take away their pension, do this, do that. people do things that are, you know, wrong all the time. but there has to be punished proportionate to what happened here. their entire past doesn't get wiped away because of something obviously was stupid. this was stupid. there can be no other connotation. >> janet? >> it's a serious offense, guys. >> to only call it stupid is an insult to stupid. >> talk wee talking about stupid, though. >> not only did they jeopardize, or compromise the dui case, they shouldn't have, but they did,
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now every case that those four have to testify in are jeopardized. the public defenders down here in south florida, they know 27 cases alone where these officers are now not going to be able to testify. those 27 people are going to walk free. assuming they were guilty to begin with. now you've got other private lawyers who have cases -- >> hold it. >> what they've done is reprehensible and they need to be punished for it. >> janet, do you agree with mark, there are 27 cases out of the mix? >> there are 27 cases that they have to go in and look at what evidence they have and if the sole means of convicting somebody was the testimony of this policeman, i'll agree with you. but if that's all they had, they didn't have that much. and guess what, you know what, they're going to have to deal with this. these cops, they made a big mistake. obviously, you know, it's on tape now. but when you look at it, you really have to say, it's just stupid. and just because somebody commits malpractice, a doctor can commit heinous malpractice,
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they don't necessarily take away his entire future. you can't foreclose and forfeit their future. >> let's not argue about the definition of stupid. this is a serious offense. we'll continue about the punishment. let's get a call in. elaine in california wants to dive in. >> caller: hi, mike. listen, can you hear me? >> yeah. go ahead. >> caller: i'm ecstatic that this came up. i used to live in florida. the police, i will say, are terrible. they put everything under the rugs. and i'm glad this finally came up. this is something that needs to be -- >> that's a big sweeping allegation. >> i know. i wouldn't go that far. >> just a minute. let's listen -- make a point. >> first, we're not condemning all law enforcement officers. in general, they're very good. i'd like to think that most officers don't engage in this activity. let's focus specifically on these four. stupid is pulling out a joint at
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a ball game in front of a cop and getting caught. this goes beyond that. the arrest affidavits in criminal cases are sacred. judges rely upon them, prosecutors rely upon them. we all read them to determine what the appropriate charge is. >> but let me say this, janet. >> this is beyond stupid. >> let's think about the implications to the victim here, alexandra torrence villeas. she would have been convicted of dui and it was her fault on the accident? that's serious for her. >> but look at this. what we're calling stupid is the fact when people question warrants that are filled with evidence, or information that is questionably obtained, that's fairly common. you know, this is a common problem. what's really good about this police department is, and i don't know this police department, is that they have the videotape running inside the -- the camera caught them, by the way. you've got to say, this police officer did something what was so stupid is that he got caught the way he got caught. and what is happening, what this
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caller pigeon holed is that there's lying -- >> let's not do the viewers a disservice. let's listen to a little bit more. this is the voice of the officers. this is as the victim here is sitting in the cop car. go ahead, let's listen. >> obviously spin a little to protect a cop. i think -- we don't want to lose faith in law enforcement officers, right? >> no. we need to lose faith in these officers who committed perjury by then taking their manufactured walt disney-like story, putting it down in writing, swearing under the penalties of perjury that all that's true, now being relied on by the court. what they did was perjury. the average citizen would go to jail for it, janet. >> 15 seconds each.
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what should be the punishment? >> they are probably going to lose their jobs. the question is -- >> probably? >> -- they're going to lose their pensions, and there are far more difficult crimes committed by public officials and they don't lose their pensions. >> if janet lets me talk, i've got 15 seconds. lose job, lose pension, prosecuted for perjury, and if they wanted to seek a little bit of jail time on them for what they did, i'm not going to be protesting against it. >> spirited conversation there. quite a story. we appreciate it. we've reported it yesterday, horrific story, a baby stolen from her mother's womb. mom is dead. thankfully the little infant girl, the little baby found alive, that person is at the center of this investigation now. more coming up.
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you're a huge part of the show. love chatting with you on the phone. call up, 1-877-tell-hln. you can shoot an e-mail as well, cnn.com/primenews. text your comments as well, text them to hlntv, that's the numbers 45688, just start your message with the word prime. one way to get in on the conversation, become a fan of "prime news" on facebook. you can chime in on the stories we do on the spot. and also take you behind the scenes. behind-the-scenes footage from richelle, myself. more info there at cnn.com/primenews. now this story.
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if there is a happy ending to something so horrific, this is it. incredible relief for the tiny baby brutally ripped out of her mother's womb. police found her alive. she was cut from her 23-year-old mom, from the womb of darlene haynes. she was 8 months pregnant at the time. they found her body inside her apartment on monday. last night cops arrested haynes' former neighbor in another state. they found julie corey in new hampshire at a homeless shelter showing off the baby. well, now corey's friends, they're coming forward. they thought that she had been pregnant for months. >> the delivery date, she was supposed to have a c-section, and she said she never had one. she kind of freaked out over that. >> she said she kicked and her feet were all swollen, as pregnant as she was. you weren't faking it. >> we'll take your calls on this, 1-877-tell-hln.
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joining me again, radio talk show host and psychologist, cooper lawrence, she's also the author of the book "cult of celebrity." and laura from the boston herald. you and i spoke yesterday. first and foremost, how is the baby doing? >> the district attorney wrapped up a press conference a little while ago. and said that the baby was in good condition. the baby's been returned to massachusetts, and is now in the custody of the state department of children and families. and a hearing has been scheduled for monday to begin to figure out the custody issue. >> exactly. that will be a whole another story in and of itself. let's get now to the crime. julie corey, do police say she is the one who killed darlene haynes? >> no one has been charged with murder at this point. julie corey was arraigned this morning in new hampshire on the charge of being a fugitive from justice on a kidnapping allegation out of massachusetts.
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she's fighting rendition back to massachusetts, and will be back in court the end of august. and held on $2 million bail. >> laura, is anyone -- are you finding anything out about how this went down? how this was carried out? was it darlene haynes? did someone else commit the murder and then give the baby to julie corey? do we know any particulars here? >> it's really unclear what happened as far as what we know about darlene. it still stands that the last time she was seen was thursday. her neighbor says that she got into a car with her daughter, christine, with julie corey. and they were supposed to be headed to roberto rodriguez's home. and roberto was the father of the 18-month-old girl,
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christina. >> julie corey was the last person seen with darlene haynes? that's the way neighbors are telling the story? >> as far as we know, yes. >> cooper, before we head to break, is this the classic case of a woman who wanted a baby and would do anything to get one? >> it's called pseudosesis. a fake pregnancy. and the research actually shows that it usually happens in your mid to early 30s, that it emerges. usually the person has been married. usually they have at least one child. a lot of the time they're a victim of incest themselves. we don't know the correlation between the incest and the pseudosesis. but that has been found consistently. it's a profile at least that we can look at. >> real quick, she already has an 11-year-old, right? so why -- >> she has five children. >> how many children? >> she has five. >> five? >> two living in california, one in massachusetts, one in new
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hampshire. and i believe one died at a young age. i don't know the circumstances. >> okay. when we come back, we'll take a quick break. again, we'll get cooper to explain to us, someone with five kids? you're going to go to these lengths to get a sixth child? it's just mind-boggling. we'll take your calls on this, if you have thoughts, comments or questions, 1-877-tell-hln.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation. a horrific story. a little baby cut from her mother's womb. her mom, darlene haynes dead. the little baby thankfully found, is doing well. we're taking your calls. let's go to the phones. chance joins us from michigan. chance, go ahead. >> caller: i think that's just sick, how someone would ever do that. who in their right mind would ever do that? >> chance, you hit it.
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whoever would do this is not in their right mind. i want to go back to cooper lawrence. cooper, laura was just laying it out there for us, that the accused here, at least accused of being a fugitive from justice, no murder charges yet, we're talking about julie corey, has five kids. why a sixth? and why a sixth to this degree, cooper? help us understand this. ? but it's not the issue how many kids does she have. it's a bigger picture. first of all, we look at violent female offenders and we know that the research shows they tend to blame victims and they tend to blame society. they externalize what's going on. they don't look at themselves. so if she has a sickness, that's not going to be her cause. and if you look at the victim in this case, you're talking about somebody who has been diagnosed with a -- mentally retarded. she has ptsd. i mean, the victim herself has some profile that seems sort of vulnerable, that would make her vulnerable to a predator like this woman. so this is very case specific. i don't think she was out looking to see who can i kill. i think she saw a vulnerable -- she saw her as prey in this way
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and somebody who didn't deserve to have another child. >> okay. laura, how long have they known each other? were they friends? what do we know about the relationship between darlene haynes and julie corey? >> we know that they were neighbors. they lived in the same apartment building for a period of time. but there's no indication that they were good friends. more like acquaintances who lived in real close proximity. and when you live in close proximity you tend to be involved in a certain level in the lives of the people around you. but there's no indication that they were buddies. >> there was a relationship. and as we look at this, cooper-s that -- so she sees her as prey and -- allegedly. we'll say that. no charges yet of murder. the way we're seeing this come together, she sees this as prey and begins the relationship knowing in the back of her mind already that's what she has
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planned, i'm going to get this baby? >> i mean, we don't know what's in her mind. i've never done a psychological evaluation of this woman. but in cases like this and we see these violent female offenders, ostensibly, yes they find a target and they do what an animal would do. they would find a way to get to their target, get close to their target, and they, you know, act upon these horrific thoughts. >> again, laura, still no -- why not the charges of murder yet? what are authorities saying? it's just right now fugitive from the law, right? >> correct. so authorities are being very tight-lipped about the matter. they did say that a search was conducted at a worcester apartment where julie corey was living with her boyfriend and her boyfriend's uncle and that was done this afternoon. >> okay. back to the baby, laura. and again, as we said, it was a separate story, but it's going to be interesting to see what -- who's going to get custody of this little baby because her father is accused of abusing
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darlene haynes, right? accused of pushing her into a glass table, choking her, also accused of hitting her back in 2008, right? >> he was back in court today for a pretrial hearing on a matter related to this incident where he allegedly threw darlene haynes into a glass table. the case was continued till september 2nd. the district attorney said they are getting a lot of interest in having the child but he would not name names. >> all right, guys. we're going to continue to follow this. cooper, laura, thanks so much. coming up, change the mood a little bit. sunday morning drivers can be painfully slow. we're going to show you a wild chase with a surprise ending. that coming up. and we'll update you on the beer summit between president obama, sergeant crowley, and professor gates. that's where they're going to sit back and -- psps
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it is all over. the bitter custody dispute over michael jackson's kids. grandma, katherine awarded sole custody. here's the catch, though. jackson's ex-wife, debbie rowe, has parental rights and visitation. there are reports that she barely knows the kids. will it be a good thing to reintroduce them -- reintroduce her into their lives? and a gigantic batch of files just released in the case against casey anthony. inside a jail inmate tells police casey confessed that she made up the nanny and it was a boyfriend who took caylee. plus, why did casey's family refuse polygraphs? intriguing details. hundreds of pages. will it bring justice for little
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caylee? you're a huge part of the show. love hearing from you. call in. 1-877-tell-hln's the number. you can e-mail us at cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv. all you have to do is start your message with the word "prime." it's your chance to be heard. >> controversy. opinion. your point of view. this is "prime news." >> welcome. this is hour number two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. a custody deal on michael jackson's kids finally settled and debbie rowe is getting no extra money out of the deal? apparently that's the way it shakes out. here's what we know. jackson's mother katherine will get full custody of her grandkids. 12-year-old prince, 11-year-old paris, 7-year-old blanket. and they're going to live with her at her home in encino, california. now, debbie rowe, she will have visitation and parental rights. again, she's the mother of michael jackson's two older children. do they own know her, though? what kind of relationship has she had with them? we'll get to the bottom of this
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custody deal. take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. and joining me to talk about this, jim moret. cooper lawrence. she's the author of the book "cult of celebrity." and joining us again, alexis neely, family law attorney. alexis, lay this out for us. do you see anything else coming down the pike or do you think this is it, it's a done deal, it's over? >> well, i think we'll know more on monday when the court gets involved and see if they say it's a done deal. that's the only other thing that could come down the pike, is is the court going to agree with this agreement that the parties made? and if they do it'll be done. >> jim, one thing that strikes us, i guess i'm a cynic, there's many things out there. debbie rowe, no money. really? help us understand. >> well, she said that she wasn't interested in any additional money. she had an agreement with michael jackson when they got divorced for spousal surmt. $8.5 million total deal. and she said she didn't want any more money. and nobody took her at her word, i guess.
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and you know what? this is interesting. it seems as if she -- she always said publicly michael jackson's a great dad. when he died, it changed the deal. she was concerned about her parents -- about who would paernt those children. and she was certainly concerned we know early on about joe jackson and his influence. it doesn't appear that there's any stipulation that keeps joe jackson away from the children. but he doesn't live with katherine jackson. and she, katherine, has the sole rights over those children with respect to guardianship and custody. >> jim, what do we know about visitation? two things. lay out for us the path. has she had visitation? when is the last time she's seen the kids? >> she has had sporadic visitation. she's never been introduced to the kids as their mother. it's my understanding that a child psychologist will be involved in visitation, in supervised visitation, and she will slowly be introduced into those children's lives. if you think about what they're dealing with, they have lost their father, their lives have
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changed irrevocably, and now she will be introduced into their lives and introduced for the first time presumably as their mom. you want to do that with guidance and with counsel because they're young kids and i'm sure it's going to be difficult enough for them as it is. but i think this is good news because this is not a bitter fight in court. this is an agreement, and if the judge approved then it's done. >> you're right there, jim. let's bring in cooper about what jim had touched on. a psychologist is going to look at this. cooper, take us through that. what is the psychologist going to go through with these kids to find out if and when they're ready to meet debbie rowe as mom? >> the process is usually the first thing that a psychologist will do is an assessment to see where the children are, how they feel, where they are developmentally, where they are emotionally. they are going through a grieving process, let's not forget. we're talking about all the legal ramifications of this and the money, but these children are grieving. they lost their primary caregiver. and that's a very big deal, not
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just because they lost a parent. they lost the one and only person they knew as a parent. so that is going to have an effect on them. the other thing is hopefully the psychologist will also assess where debbie rowe is in terms of what her emotions are here. because if she makes this about her once again, these children are not in a position to mother her, to take care of her. this is about them. they're grieving. they're angry. they're going through guilt. they need to go through that process. and maybe having debbie rowe in their life might not be the best thing right now. >> yeah. a slow methodical process is what certainly is needed here. let's get a call in. julia in ohio's with us. hey, julia. your comment or question? >> caller: yes, hi. what a scam, what a scam, what a scam. >> ooh. who's scamming who, julia? >> caller: debbie rowe has scammed the jacksons. and any mother who really cares would have ke wouldn't have kept their children with someone who's an addict. and she can't be too concerned
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about an 80-year-old man. and why would she need her parental rights when she has never, you know, cashed in on that? and the children are just going to be more psychologically damaged. i mean, when they find out when they get older she sold them twice, it's ridiculous. it's really sad. and the third child's going to be alienated. i just want to cry about this. >> let me ask cooper about that. what about the third child who's not a biological child of debbie rowe? how do you weave that in? will debbie rowe have any contact with blanket? >> we see kids all the time. just because you're biologically related to someone doesn't mean that they're necessarily good for you in your lives. and the opposite is true. look at stepparents. they come in and they're wonderful. so it depends on debbie rowe, who she becomes. this woman doesn't know anything about parenting. you know-f this was a foster care case, the first thing they would do in reuniting is they would send her to parenting classes. is that going to happen? is she going to learn how to parent and learn how to parent these children? there's a lot of variables here that need to happen before she
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just comes into these children's lives. >> that's a great point. you're really hitting on something, cooper. and i like where you're going. debbie rowe needs to be prepared for this. certainly her first thought is the kids, but she does as well. guys, we'll tack a quick break. much more on this. the custody deal set. katherine jackson has custody of the kids. debbie rowe with parental rights and visitation. taking your calls. 1-877-tell-hln.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. it seems we now know definitively who's going to raise michael jackson's kids. his mom, katherine, given sole custody of paris, prince, and blanket. how's debbie rowe fit into all
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that? we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln. go to the phones. marie's with us in pennsylvania. hey, marie, go ahead. >> caller: hi. i just wanted to say i think those children are going to have a hard enough time as it is just trying to assimilate into the jackson family. let's not forget that they are new to that family. and i think to add the debbie rowe equation would just be horrific on them. then someone has to try to explain to them about surrogacy, why their mom gave them up, plus the ningtz thegative things thae going to hear in years to come about their dad and the family. i just think we really have to keep the kids -- >> number one marx rie. you're right np p all they have to process. that's a great point. let's bring back alexis neely, family law attorney. a couple things. we mentioned parental rights for debbie rowe. can you explain what rights she has? yes, she's biological mom of the two older kids. what does that entail, alexis? >> as the biological mom, she may have parental rights. that was never determined in court what her parental rights might be.
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did she actually give up her rights in the past? what are the status of those rights? and what it sounds like is that the agreement that they entered into is designed to preserve whatever parental rights she may have. again, we don't know what those are but it sounds like she wants to hold on to them in exchange for saying i'm not going to go into a custody battle here but if i do sfli parental rights i want to maintain them. if it's best for the kids, i want to be able to have a relationship with them. and in the interest of not fighting they've all agreed to come up with a solution that will be in the kids' best interest. and listen, they know what's in the kids' best interest. there's going to be a psychologist involved. we have no idea. we don't know what's in the kids' best interest right now. but we have to trust that katherine jackson, debbie rowe, all of the advisers, the psychologists that will be involved, will know what's in the best interests. >> we certainly hope. let's get another call in, guys. theresa's with us in maryland. hey, theresa. >> caller: hi. >> hi. i was calling to find out.
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they're saying the custody deal did not have money. i was wondering would they have money and not tell anyone? >> hmm. >> caller: and the second question i was asking is debbie rowe, if anything happens to mrs. jackson, and they're saying she has custody rights, can she come back in and try to take those kids? >> jim moret, let's hit a couple -- both those there. if -- i mean, if katherine jackson were to pass away, diana ross is next in line the way we understand things, right? not debbie rowe. >> that's according to the will. and we don't know if the will has been deemed valid yet. that will occur presumably on monday or at a later date. the judge is going to first look at that on monday. but she is next in line according to the will. however, there's nothing that indicates that a chain of custody is in place. meaning if something happened to katherine jackson it's possible that you could end up back in court once again and debbie rowe could reassert these rights
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whatever they may and be say you know what, now i want custody. it's not clear really, and i don't know that it will be made clear publicly. >> okay. >> and that's why also i think she is retaining these rights, so that if there is a chance to come forward later, and it really brings home the point for all of us. it is so important for you to make clear about how you want your children raised if anything happens to you. >> alexis, great point there. we've got to pĂșrun. thanks so much. much more. new developments in the casey anthony case coming up.
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you're a huge part of the show. love hearing from you. call in. the number 1-877-tell-hln. you can disagree with some of our panelists like jane did from rhode island. e-mail us. cnn.com/primenews or text us hlntv. the number's 45688. start your message with the word "prime." and one other way to get in on the conversation, become a fan of "prime news" on facebook. we'll take you behind the scenes on the show.
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richelle, myself, snapshots, let you know what stories we're covering. all the juice that brings "prime news" to your table monday through friday 5:00 eastern. there for the taking. cnn.com/primenews for more info. now this. two big developments today in the case against casey anthony. the mother accused of killing her little girl, little caylee. today florida prosecutors grilled casey's brother, lee, interrogated him under oath. her mom, cindy, she gave hours of grueling testimony yesterday, the day before. also this, just released, mega pile of court documents, hundreds of pages and stunners inside include this, casey's family refused a polygraph, and a shocking statement from a jail inmate, that casey told him in secret. as always, take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, criminal defense attorneys, janet panisi's with us. we also welcome back mike eiglarsh. mark former prosecutor. and also welcome back natisha lance, producer from the nancy grace show. natisha, let's start with you. let's start with some 1,400
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pages of documents. any highlights stand out to you in there? >> one of the things that stood out to me is that cindy anthony was doing her best to convince law enforcement that zenaida gonzalez did exist. she handed over toys that belonged to caylee anthony, dvds as well, to let them know that these are items caylee may have had when she was with zenaida, you should dust these items for fingerprints. law enforcement did go ahead and do that. we don't know the results of those fingerprints tests. we do know that law enforcement has maintained all along that zenaida gonzalez does not exist. >> that's one of the other highlights we have is that an inmate by the name of -- a jail inmate by the name of travis nichols says casey told him, he asked her point blank about the babysitter, about little caylee. according to travis nichols, this jail inmate, that casey told her i made up zenaida. is that the way you understand it, natisha? >> she said i made up zenaida. she said the baby is with her boyfriend at the time. we don't know if that was tony lazzaro or jesse grund or -- one
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of these boyfriends that casey anthony had. and this inmate, he was in jail for drug charges as well as burglary charges. we did speak to the orange county sheriff's office, actually the jail, the p.i.o. at the jail at that time, and he said it would be very unlikely for a male inmate and a female inmate to be in the same quarters at the same time. so not so sure about his credibility. but this is what he says casey anthony told him. >> exactly. you look at -- whatever the case, zenaida, mark, i heard you grumbling there a moment ago. zenaida does not exist and more casey lies to cover her tracks. go ahead. >> well, let's just say this. first of all, what i was grumbling about, mike, was that somehow this case hinges upon some other male inmate who probably had no contact with her, apparently she has clammed up, casey, throughout this whole case and now somehow revealed to another inmate, hey, zenaida doesn't exist? that's garbage. so they're not even going to introduce that testimony, number one. number two, i agree with natisha 100%, that of all the 1,500
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pages of documents the most compelling to me was cindy anthony's detail in trying to create the existence of zenaida, or zanny the nanny, and this document right here is the most compelling. she swears under the penalties of perjury that zanny the nanny gave to cindy a hair straightener, and also that cindy would give to -- would bring over to zanny's house bambi videos. here's the most compelling part of this. the suspect's name in this report is listed as zenaida fernandez gonzalez. you mean she was a suspect of a kidnapping according to law enforcement? the defense is going to have a field day with this document. >> i thought it was -- wasn't it zenaida fernandez rodriguez, natisha? >> no, zenaida fernandez gonzalez. >> okay. that's what they had in there. let's bring in janet panisi in on this. is that really a building block for a defense case? cindy trying to convince
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investigators there was a zanny the nanny? >> no. but what's happening here is there's so much evidence that they're going to have to sort of plod through and they're going to show that it's just crazy evidence being given crazy connotations, and it adds to sort of the zaniness of it all. and if nothing more, this case is going to have that element to it. here we are also learning that they secretly videotaped this woman when she was told that her daughter was dead. i mean, she was brought to the nurse's station from her jail, and she was told then that her daughter's remains had been found. and of course, why would you tape that and then release it? except that you're trying to make this case more than it really is. and that adds to the zaniness. that adds to the -- the defense is going to be this case was handled by the prosecutors in such a way that it's so zany. what else do they have? and, you know what? i really don't like this case at all. but you've got to want to have this woman have a fair trial.
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>> no, we do. >> because these issues are so serious. >> as much as many of our viewers despise, let's put it bluntly here, casey anthony, we want her to have a fair trial. one point i want to make here, and natisha, correct me if i'm wrong, when they taped her in the jailhouse we didn't know it was little caylee yet. i believe casey was told remains of a child had been found near the home. not -- we didn't know -- natisha, isn't that right? >> you're absolutely right. there was no confirmation it was caylee yet. >> just to be clear there, janet. but we know what they're going after, the prosecution. and mark, we don't know that they're even going to use that, right? >> that's correct. but going back to your original point, in order for this defense to work, and it appears that they're sticking with casey's original story, and that is that it wasn't her who took down her own daughter, it was zanny the nanny, the first building block is you've got to prove that person exists. and her detail helps get there -- >> guys, we're just getting loose. hang tight.
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welcome back to "prime news." police investigating shocking allegation that's four of their officers tried to frame a woman over a fender-bender. here's the story. alexandra torrance vilas was rear-ended by an officer in his squad car back in february. three other cops show up, and apparently she admitted through all this she has been drinking. they give her a field sobriety test, she fails it. so they arrest her on dui charges. then while she's handcuffed in the back of the cop cart the officers allegedly concocted a scheme to nail her for the accident. now, while the squad car camera was on, they're talking. let's listen to the officers.
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>> all right. there you have it. before we go any further, we contacted the hollywood police department. they tell us they would not be able to comment and it's actually a violation of the law for them to talk about the allegations. the department says as soon as the police chief became aware of the allegations before they were reported by the media he launched an internal affairs investigation, and as we understand it, all four of the officers are basically doing administrative duty. they're not out on the road as this investigation continues. we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. let's welcome back our attorneys. mark eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. and janet pennisi, she's a criminal defense attorney as well. all right. again, janet, cops on administrative duty right now. how are they going to fight this when we have the audio of them talking it out right there with dash cam microphones on? >> it's not a matter they're going to deny what happened because obviously they can't do that. what they're going to do is try to have minimized punishment.
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you read what's going on about this case and everyone's like take away their pension, do this, do that. people do things that are wrong all the time but they have to be punished proportionate to what happened here. and their entire futures don't get wiped away. their entire past doesn't get wiped away because of something that obviously was stupid. and this was stupid. there can be no other connotation. >> it's a serious offense, you guys. >> listen, to only call it stupid is an insult to stupid. >> okay, well, today we're talking about stupid, though. >> let me explain. okay? because not only now did they jeopardize or compromise the dui case, they shouldn't have but they did, now every case that those four have to testify in are jeopardized. the public defenders down here in south florida, they know 27 cases alone where these officers are now not going to be available to testify. those 27 people are going to walk free. assuming they were guilty to begin with. now you've got other private lawyers who have cases -- >> hold it, you guys. >> what they've done is reprehensible and they need to be punished for it.
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>> janet, do you agree with mark, there are 27 cases out of the mix? >> there's going to be 27 case that's they have to go in and look at what evidence they have and what kind of confirmation they have. and if the sole purpose -- the sole means of convicting somebody was the testimony of this policeman, i'll agree with you. but if that's all they had, they didn't have that much. and guess what, you know what, they're going to have to deal with this. this cop, these cops, they made a big mistake. obviously, you know, it's on tape now. but when you look at it, you really have to say, it's just stupid. and just because somebody commits malpractice, a doctor can commit heinous malpractice, they don't necessarily take away his entire future. you can't foreclose and forfeit their future. >> let's get a call in and not argue about the definition of stupid. >> well -- >> but we'll hear both sides. mark, and this is a serious offense. and we'll continue about the punishment. let's get a call in. and go from there. elaine's in california and wants to dive in. go ahead, elaine. >> caller: hi, mike. listen, can you hear me? >> yeah. go ahead. >> caller: i'm ecstatic that
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this came up. i used to live in florida. the police, i will say, are terrible. they put everything under the rugs. and i'm glad this finally came up. this is something that needs to be -- >> that's a big sweeping allegation. >> i know. i wouldn't go that far. >> let's zone in on this one. okay, mark, make a point, then we'll listen a little more. >> first, we're not condemning all law enforcement officers. >> no. >> in general, they're very good. i'd like to think that most officers don't engage in this activity. let's focus specifically on these four. stupid is pulling out a joint at a ball game in front of a cop and getting caught. this goes beyond that. the arrest affidavits in criminal cases are sacred. judges rely upon them, prosecutors rely upon them. we all read them to determine what the appropriate charge is. >> but let me say this, janet. >> this is beyond stupid. >> let's think about the implications to the victim here, alexandra torrence vilas. she would have been convicted of
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what, dui and it was her fault on the accident? that's serious for her. >> i'm not saying it's not serious. but look at this. what i'm calling stupid is the fact that, you know, when people question warrants that are filled with evidence or information that is questionably obtained, that's fairly common. you know, this is a common problem. what's really good about this police department is, and i don't know this police department, is that they have the videotape running inside the -- the camera is what call the them, by the way. >> guys, let's listen -- >> so you've got to say this police officer did something. what was so stupid is that he got caught the way he got caught. and what is happening, what's commonplace and what this caller has pinpoint sd -- >> let's not do the viewers a disservice. let's listen to a little bit more. this is the voice of the officers. this is as the victim here is sitting in the cop car. go ahead, let's listen.
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>> obviously spin a little to protect a cop. i think -- we don't want to lose faith in law enforcement officers, right? >> no. >> that really speaks to that. >> we need to lose faith in these officers who committed perjury by then taking their manufactured walt disney-like story, putting it down in writing, swearing under the penalties of perjury that all that's true, turning it in, and now being relied upon by the court. what they did was perjury. the average citizen would go to jail for it, janet. >> 15 seconds each. punishment. what should be the punishment? janet, 15 seconds. >> they are probably going to lose their jobs. the question is -- >> probably? >> -- are they going to lose their pensions? and the answer is there are far more difficult crimes committed by public officials. they don't lose their pensions. >> 15 seconds. if janet lets me talk, i've got 15 seconds. lose job, lose pension, prosecuted for perjury, and if they wanted to seek a little bit of jail time on them for what
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they did, i'm not going to be out there protesting against it. >> guys, spirited conversation there. quite a story. and now this. a missing idaho boy last seen friday, well, we're finding out as we continue to search for him new details about members of his family and their criminal history. that's coming up.
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welcome back.
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i am more frightened today for little robert manwill. the 8-year-old boy from boise, idaho missing since friday. we're now finding out about disturbing violence by adults in this little boy's life. court records just released show his mother hit robert's 9-month-old half-brother, fracturing the little guy's skull. that's his mom. that's when robert was visiting the day he suddenly went missing. let's get an update on the search for this little guy. joining us to talk about it, michelle sigona, correspondent for "america's most wanted." michelle, what is the latest in the search for robert? >> the latest in this case is tomorrow a very large search will take place which will include hundreds of volunteers throughout boise, idaho. they will meet in a particular area. they can show up in the hours of 9:00 a.m., 12:00 noon and also 3:00 p.m. different teams will be set out. it's a very organized search put out by the police department. i can also tell you that members of the national guard were out know, they
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the community is tremendous and not -- they've never even seen before. this is good news. >> do they have concrete leads, michelle? >> they do have some leads those missing child case that's we cover, as you can see, you know, they will go out, they will track down addresses, they will talk to people just like they have in this case. they've tracked down sex offenders throughout the area. about 100 have been interviewed at this time. so far nothing has panned out. so tomorrow we're going on day seven. >> okay. we still hope and pray for this little guy. let's talk a little bit, michelle, about some of the -- and it's disturbing details. when you talk about especially his mom, melissa scott jenkins, hit. originally charged with a felony. i think pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. robert's 9-month-old brother hit in the head, skull fractured.
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there's mental damage as well. the mom's boyfriend, daniel ehrlich, he's spent time in jail, burglary charges. also, the mom did not want this boyfriend alone with her then 2 1/2-year-old daughter. michelle, those are disturbing details here. what are investigators saying about that? >> they are very disturbing details. and one of the investigators i spoke with just a couple hours ago wants the public to know and wants everyone to be reminded that look, yes, there is a criminal history here, there is a past dealing with the mom and also her current boyfriend, but case, there are no persons of interest, that everyone, mom, dad, boyfriends, girlfriends, aunts, uncles, even more family members are coming into town even as of today, even as of earlier this afternoon to try to help with the effort in finding robert. so that's everyone's main concern at this point. the aunt has been the spokesperson, has been the one to speak for the family.
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so the family's sort of taken a back seat. but they are out searching for robert. >> so the 9-month-old i believe is 18 months old now. who has custody of that child? >> at this point if i'm not mistake mistaken, because it is -- this is robert's mom and also her boyfriend. and they do to my understanding still live together. that that child still may be with them. >> okay. let's talk about his father, charles manwill. where is he in the picture? >> right now from what investigators have told me is that charles is there with the rest of the family. he is cooperating. he is searching. i do want to mention that charles is the one that does have custody of robert. charles. custody in he was spending some summertime months with his when he did go missing a week ago tomorrow. >> yeah, let's be clear. he was visiting mom and mom's family when he went missing.
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anything -- we had heard that he wanted to go to a party. that was an early report. what are authorities saying about that now? >> well, what investigators are into. if he -- you know, that could theory that they were working on and something they have looked into for sure. i can tell you that. but again, no evidence of a party that he was in fact going there or made it there. >> all right. we're going to -- again, our thoughts and prayers go out to robert manwill, and we just pray for a safe return. >> thank you. have a great day. >> yeah, you too. coming up, mel gibson back in the news. two polar opposite stories. a photographer claims gibson pushed him, shoved him, ripped his shirt at a club. people at the club say that's b.s. is it legit? i'm going to talk to my colleague jane velez-mitchell about that. we'll take your calls as well. 1-877-tell-hln.
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welcome back. new drama from mel gibson. a photographer hurling some pretty harsh accusations at the hollywood star, accused gibson of ripping his shirt while gibson's pregnant girlfriend watched. now, police say they're not buying it. folks at the -- i believe the place is called the playhouse. a club in hollywood. they say the story -- the photographer's story is b.s. let's get to the bottom of that. i want to bring in my colleague jane velez-mitchell host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming your way top of the hour. jane, what do you make of this? >> well, i think these circumstances can be very troublesome for a star like mel gibson. essentially because he's had scandal and trouble in the past, it opens a pandora's box, and it really invites others to be rather aggressive with him. according to the reports that i've read, a photographer/reporter was trying
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to get a shot of mel gibson and his girlfriend and couldn't get it, and so handed the camera to somebody else, sort of an average joe, who ended up trying to take the shot, and that's when the problems occurred. so i think that we have to really understand how aggressive some of these paparazzi can be and realize how would we behave in the same situation? i'm not excusing it. dui. decisions. think police are questioning specifically some of the things that this particular man who went to the police and said his shirt was ripped by mel gibson, they're questioning that account, and they say witnesses have a different version of that. >> yeah. it sounds like from what i'm reading here, and i think you've done a little more research than i have. but there's not a witness to corroborate this story. the person who says they got the shirt ripped. most say that mel gibson was wedged, he and his pregnant girlfriend were wedged in a booth and he couldn't have just gotten up and started ripping the guy's shirt and going after
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him. but you're talking about a larger point here, right, jane? that a guy like mel gibson, who's made the macho aggressive movies, part of those in the past, and also in his private life as well. so you're saying people are going to come after him a little harder. >> yeah. he's made himself a target with some of his decisions. his religion is certainly his business. but he's been very, very public about it. and now he's leading a lifestyle that some are saying, well, it goes -- it flies in the face of his own professed beliefs. so he keeps opening himself up for examination by the public due to what some would call certain hypocrisies. and because of that it makes him a lightning rod and it kind of invites people who may not be all there to do the kinds of things that they wouldn't try on another celebrity that's not the subject of such controversy. >> when you talk about mel gibson, and let's face, it at one time he was the star in hollywood, wasn't he? >> sure. >> where do you go from here in
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the future if you're mel gibson? you were married to what, robin moore for 28 years. they have seven children. now you're restarting with your pregnant girlfriend. there's just a lot of things to deal with with mel gibson. plus, as you had mentioned, the anti-semitic tirade, the problems with alcohol in his past. he's not just going to slide off into the sunset, is he? >> i think he's an amazing actor. i think he's done a lot of wonderful movies. and he certainly has the right to live his life as he pleases as long as he doesn't hurt anybody else. again, i go back to the fact that he's been very public about his professed belief and he's actually built a church in malibu as sort of a shrine to his professed belief -- >> and you're talking about conservative catholic beliefs. that's where mel gibson emanates from, right? >> yeah. that don't even believe in divorce. >> right. >> so here he is with a girlfriend who's expecting prior to a divorce. you know, it makes people talk. let's put it that way. >> yeah. do we know about his career?
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where is he heading next? >> i'm sure he has a million projects. i mean, the guy is not just an actor but he's a producer and a filmmaker. so he's got his tentacles in many, many different aspects of show business. i definitely think we're going to see more artistic work to come from him. one of the interesting things about artists is that sometimes their brilliance is counteracted by their prernls liersonal life. but it doesn't stop them from being brilliant artists. >> "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming your way in less than ten minutes. this hour a big story going on. the beer summit. everybody's talking about it. president obama at the white house meeting with harvard professor henry louis gates. there are some shots. vice president joe biden knocking one back as well. professor gates, sergeant jim crowley there together. we know what happened. professor gates arrested in his own home by sergeant crowley. want to hear from you on this one. what do you hope for? what do you hope comes out of this? call in.
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